Hi Alphas, Betas and Greek letters in-waiting! Today I’m going to be talking a little bit about some of the feedback we’ve been given from our judges on a few of the reasons stories don’t get accepted to the workshop. I’ll be mixing in some of the experience I’ve had from submitting to magazines and contests, whose editors and judges have often said similar things.
Diane Turnshek, one of Alpha’s judges of application stories, told me that three of the most common problems she sees in stories are:
1.) The protagonist is not active in making his or her own choices.
2.) There are little or no genre elements in the story.
3.) The story takes place in a common, generic reality.
Diane’s first point could cover many blog posts all on its own, so for now I’m going to focus in on the second and third points on this list and talk a little bit about how important getting the genre aspects of the story in early are. Diane here says something that is actually very similar to advice I’ve seen Writers of the Future contest judge K.D. Wentworth give out on what catches her attention on contest entries. WotF is the biggest competition out there for new writers of science fiction and fantasy both in terms of prestige and prize money, and well worth submitting to as you begin your careers in the field. K.D. Wentworth has thousands of stories to judge every quarter and so, like every good editor out there has to, she focuses only on the very beginning of stories to see which ones she should continue reading.
One of her main complaints that tallies with 2) and 3) in Diane’s list above, is that the speculative aspect of the story is not evident on the first page. In judging the Alphan application stories, the entirety of the piece is read, but busy editors and slush readers elsewhere often don’t have the time to read all the way through the story. If they find nothing to hook them early on, or find something they don’t like, the story will be passed and the next picked up instead.
That’s why getting your fantasy, science fiction or horror element out there on the front page early is so important. You only have a short window to impress, and getting the unique part of your story into the mind of the reader in the first few paragraphs does so much to capture them for the rest of the story. Starting slow can work in novels, but in short stories you only have a small amount of words and it’s important to get into the meat of the story as soon as you can, which in a speculative fiction story means showing your genre elements early, and making them unique and interesting. You don’t need to put too much information in too early, but just a hint of the strange nature of your story early on can work wonders.
The third point of Diane’s list is just as important to a successful story though. If you’re submitting a story to a science fiction, fantasy or horror market, they want to know that it’s a genre story early so that it’ll fit their audience. But if you want to sell the story, you also have to make that setting unique. A generic fantasy world with dwarfs in chain mail living under the mountains, elves with long bows that live in the treetops and evil orcs and goblins has been done so many times that unless you have something to distinguish your world from every other Tolkien clone out there, you’ll struggle to keep the reader’s attention. The same is true of a science fiction story with starships that shoot lasers and have improbable space battles, and is increasingly becoming true of romantic stories involving vampires and werewolves.
It’s not that you can’t include these elements, many successful novels do include starships, vampires or orcs. The trick, however, is in choosing elements of that setting that is distinctly different from what you’ve read in the past. If your world has magic, could you think of some interesting rules as to what the characters need to do to use it? If your story is set in space, could you imagine a different kind of space travel to the traditional old hyperspace? A little bit of thought to push your story in a new direction can make a massive difference. Having said that, some of the best, award winning stories go even further than that. They take a completely new path, perhaps by writing about a new science discovery the author read about in the news, or by creating a totally new fantasy world with new creatures and culture.
Using your imagination is one of the hardest, and most fun parts of writing speculative fiction. It can be incredibly invigorating and rewarding to create a new world and write a story in it. Embrace that feeling, and push it that little bit further. By forcing yourself not to take the same old beaten path when it comes to the genre elements of your story, you will end up with a bright, more vibrant story as a result, and that will resonate with editors, judges and readers alike.
128 Comments
Posted April 4, 2011 at 05:47 | Permalink
Tomas wrote:
>In judging the Alphan application stories, the entirety of the piece is read, but busy editors and slush readers elsewhere often don’t have the time to read all the way through the story.
So true. If we didn’t, we’d miss some awesome stories that start badly. That’s easily correctable, and one of the topics covered at Alpha.
The judging is about finished for the 2011 workshop and we’ll be getting back to people early this year. I’m pleased.
Posted April 4, 2011 at 08:12 | Permalink
Can’t wait to find out if I made it in! Uber excited
Posted April 4, 2011 at 14:35 | Permalink
Me too! I’m so impatient!!!!!
Posted April 5, 2011 at 00:31 | Permalink
Ohmygosh, ohmygosh, ohmygosh (I sound ridiculous…oh well)!!!! This is really exciting news. The beginning of April has been good so far, but now IT JUST GOT WAY BETTER!
Posted April 5, 2011 at 12:59 | Permalink
I know, right?! xD
Posted April 5, 2011 at 14:08 | Permalink
Did either of you ever go to Alpha before?
Posted April 5, 2011 at 18:02 | Permalink
I haven’t. Have you?
Posted April 5, 2011 at 18:49 | Permalink
Not yet… But I hope my answer will be different by next year!
Posted April 5, 2011 at 19:18 | Permalink
You and me both. Then we could meet each other, too
Posted April 5, 2011 at 19:57 | Permalink
That would be so totally awesome! If I get in anyways…I just want to know already!
Anyways, where are you from? I promise I’m not a creepy web stalker, but I am curious to see if there’s anyone else who applied from New York…Also, do you know anyone who actually went to the workshop before? I really want to get a first hand account of Alpha!
Posted April 6, 2011 at 06:13 | Permalink
I’m from New Jersey, actually ^_^ but I don’t know anyone who’s been to the workshop either. The only person I’ve really gotten a first-hand account from would be Holly Black…who said it’s an amazing experiance. I’m so impatient! The wait for this email is killing me! Lol
Posted April 6, 2011 at 20:25 | Permalink
Trust me, I can relate! I even already planned that when I get the email (either acception or rejection), my friend is going to come over with a tub of ice cream so we can celebrate/commiserate together! That way, the whole process is win/win. Either I get into the program and get ice cream, or I get rejected and still get ice cream!
Posted April 6, 2011 at 20:43 | Permalink
Ice cream makes everything better
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:22 | Permalink
Agreed!
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:40 | Permalink
I know, the process is so exciting! Luckily, I have enough schoolwork to distract me from the excitement!…
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:42 | Permalink
I just read Diane’s first comment… I feel slow. How early are we talking?… This stinks because I’ll be busy the next few days and might not see it when it first comes in!
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:51 | Permalink
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SOOOOOO freaking nervous!!!!! man.. partly happy that we’ll hear a little early, now my 15th wont be as busy. ^_^ but stil……..EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:56 | Permalink
And I agree with everyone, ice cream is awesome.
Posted April 6, 2011 at 21:58 | Permalink
Yes, Michelle, ice cream is awesome. But still, the anticipation is killing me.
Posted April 6, 2011 at 22:00 | Permalink
Lol you couldn’t say that to me instead of posting it since I’m on the phone with you?
^_^ <3
Posted April 6, 2011 at 22:04 | Permalink
But posting is fun
<3
Posted April 6, 2011 at 22:56 | Permalink
Grrrrrr……… I know that suspence is an important literary technique, but aren’t we going to learn that AT alpha?
Posted April 7, 2011 at 05:59 | Permalink
Haha….we’d now if we were learning it….if we knew if we got in…. >.< argh! I wanna meet you guys!
Posted April 7, 2011 at 12:01 | Permalink
Same, you guys all sound like a fun bunch. Although, I might end up being one of the oldest kids there lol.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 14:13 | Permalink
Why? You can’t really be THAT old. Anyways, it’s okay if you’re going to be one of the oldest, cuz I’m probably going to be one of the youngest… Meh.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 16:39 | Permalink
Hmmm…well, neither of you sound really old, OR really young. To me, anyway
Posted April 7, 2011 at 17:08 | Permalink
Sweet, I’ll take that as a complement ^_^
I guess I do sound a bit young for my age, but then again I’ve always hung out with kids that are a year or more younger than me.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 17:32 | Permalink
I can relate. I’ve always sounded older, because I hang out with older people hehe :3
Posted April 7, 2011 at 18:44 | Permalink
In answer to Micky’s post (accidentally on the wrong blog post) I am 16 ;3
Posted April 7, 2011 at 18:49 | Permalink
Cool, sorry about the wrong post thing again…but it’s nice to know that I’m not the only one totally stalking this site!
Posted April 7, 2011 at 18:58 | Permalink
Oh goodness no! I’m constantly refreshing the page, even on my phone lol.
If we don’t get the email soon, I’m going to explode!
Posted April 7, 2011 at 19:03 | Permalink
Spontaneous combustion… sounds like a fun way to kill off a character!
Posted April 7, 2011 at 19:27 | Permalink
LOL nice, could be great if you need a plot twist or if you just can’t figure out any other way to kill the dude that, for plot advancement purposes, just needs to die.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 19:27 | Permalink
And ditto to Meghan, I refresh the page about every 20 min.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 19:32 | Permalink
Wait, so how old are you Michelle?
Posted April 7, 2011 at 19:45 | Permalink
Haha, yes…spontaneous combustion could be usefull…
Posted April 7, 2011 at 20:49 | Permalink
I’ll be 19 in May lol. So this year and next are my only shots at this. I only found out about it this year and that was only because Noella and I went to the same High school before she moved and I graduated. She found it by accident and told me about it.
Posted April 7, 2011 at 20:52 | Permalink
Night all, I got 2 tests tomorrow…Bio and Music History >_< *sigh*
Posted April 7, 2011 at 21:22 | Permalink
Good luck on your tests Michelle.
I’m so ridiculously excited right now because my friend just bought me a super-mega-foxy-awesome-hot shirt from a very potter musical!!! If I don’t get into alpha this will almost make up for it!
Posted April 8, 2011 at 08:57 | Permalink
lol nice
Posted April 8, 2011 at 11:51 | Permalink
Hey all! Just wonderiing, but has anyone found out yet????
Posted April 8, 2011 at 12:24 | Permalink
Nope and is DRIVING ME NUTS!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I WANT TO KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!
Sorry bout that, ADHD+stress from school+suspense from this+suspense about hearing about an internship = The occasional mental breakdown+raving mad outburst. Glad thats out of my system….for now anyways lol.
Posted April 8, 2011 at 13:08 | Permalink
So glad I’m not the only one going insane!
Posted April 8, 2011 at 13:13 | Permalink
^_^
Posted April 8, 2011 at 13:19 | Permalink
:3
Posted April 8, 2011 at 13:42 | Permalink
lol just checked my e-mail for the 3rd time today
Posted April 8, 2011 at 15:10 | Permalink
I’m about to lol. This is such torture >.<
Posted April 8, 2011 at 15:53 | Permalink
Amen. I want to know……*sigh* at least I have old school Batman cartoons to help keep my mind off it a little
Posted April 8, 2011 at 15:55 | Permalink
well, time for a makeup ride for my horse back riding class. That should help keep my mind off this for a bit. ^_^
Posted April 8, 2011 at 17:26 | Permalink
I’m starting to think that this whole “getting back to poeple early” thing is just a mean joke!
Posted April 8, 2011 at 17:36 | Permalink
Me too! A REALLY mean joke….*sigh*
Posted April 8, 2011 at 19:05 | Permalink
Posted April 8, 2011 at 19:25 | Permalink
I’ve definitely checked my email atleast once every 5mins when I’m not busy. When exactly is “early?”
Posted April 8, 2011 at 19:34 | Permalink
lol
Posted April 9, 2011 at 08:18 | Permalink
Not soon enough :\
Posted April 9, 2011 at 11:33 | Permalink
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEEDS TO KNOW!!!! Darn it, don’t tell us we’ll hear “early” with out telling us HOW early!!!! IM LOSING MY MIND!!!!
Posted April 9, 2011 at 12:16 | Permalink
I checked my mail…AGAIN :/ ugh! I can’t take this anymore! D:
Posted April 9, 2011 at 13:28 | Permalink
ditto…I hope all us chatting away here get it, I really want to meet you guys
Posted April 9, 2011 at 13:49 | Permalink
Me too. I actually had a dream last night about waking up and checking the site, and finding out that all of you got in, but I didn’t lol
Posted April 9, 2011 at 16:14 | Permalink
Mmm…turns out it was a premonition of sorts. Wish it was just a nightmare, though. Sure feels like one…
Posted April 9, 2011 at 16:48 | Permalink
maybe not…..I got the boot too….dang…next years my last shot…this sucks.
Posted April 9, 2011 at 16:53 | Permalink
-sigh- it does. where are you from, Michelle?
Posted April 9, 2011 at 16:56 | Permalink
Virginia
Posted April 9, 2011 at 16:59 | Permalink
Cool. Ugh. All that waiting, and now this :/
Posted April 9, 2011 at 18:56 | Permalink
Hey Micky, how bout you? Get in?
Posted April 9, 2011 at 19:34 | Permalink
Ah rejection…
Posted April 9, 2011 at 19:48 | Permalink
you too, Noella? Jeez…I wish I knew how good the other stories were, so I could get better :/
Posted April 9, 2011 at 19:54 | Permalink
Well… I didn’t get in
…but I wasn’t rejected either 
— I was wait-listed, so I really hope I get in…
Posted April 9, 2011 at 19:59 | Permalink
So…is there anyone here who was accepted to alpha, bit isn’t planning on going? If so, I’d love to know….
Posted April 9, 2011 at 20:26 | Permalink
Lucky.
Posted April 9, 2011 at 20:30 | Permalink
I might still not even get in…anyways, there’s always next year for both of us!
Posted April 9, 2011 at 20:31 | Permalink
This is true. Very true indeed. So, what kind of story did you submit?
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:09 | Permalink
Well, it was a little post-apocalyptic/futuristic kind of –the country where it was based could only have come around through futuristic technology, but I didn’t include so much of that in the actual story (so it was just the setting). Beyond that, my genre elements where few, limited to the protagonist and her supernatural power of persuasion.
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:39 | Permalink
Sounds cool.
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:49 | Permalink
Lol thnx. What was yours about? What genre??
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:55 | Permalink
Fantasy. Not sure what sub genre I’d put it in…A young woman’s village is burned to the ground by Unseelie fey, and she’s saved by an evlen knight of the Seelie Court. So she’s forced to trust this knight, even though everyone in her villaged believed all fey were evil.
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:57 | Permalink
Interesting…I’ve never really tried to write that kind of fantasy before, but it sounds both fun and rewarding. Who are your author idols?
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:58 | Permalink
*elven knight
Posted April 9, 2011 at 22:59 | Permalink
Tamora Pierce and Holly Black mainly
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:00 | Permalink
And of course there’s Tolkein
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:07 | Permalink
Sucking up to Tamora Peirce Meghan? Smart move!
jk, I also adore Tamora Pierce (especially a lot of her earlier works). I’ve only read a few of her novels (like Tithe), but it sounds the most similar in a sub-genre area to your submission story.
Do you ever do anything out of the fantasy genre? Do you read or write sci-fi, dystopian, or modern fantasy?
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:08 | Permalink
(When referring to ‘her’ the second time I meant to write Holly Black. Sorry!
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:13 | Permalink
Very little modern fantasy. Closest I’ve read to that would be Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files. I always wright some kind of fantasy though. If it’s modern, it usually has faeries in it lol
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:16 | Permalink
Cool! You’re totally making me want to write something with fairies (or faeries) in it! Okay, so I have to ask…what are your top 3 favorite books of all time??? (and yes, the cat in the hat most certainly DOES count)!
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:34 | Permalink
Alanna, Tithe…and the Iron King
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:45 | Permalink
Of course I’ve read Alanna and Tithe but never the Iron King… oooo it looks interesting! Now I finally have some new reading material. Thanks Meghan! I’ve got to say that none of my favorites overlap with yours
I prefer The Hunger Games, Harry Potter (of course), and Ender’s Game (if you haven’t read it you sooo should)! I also kind of owe a debt to Frances Hodgson Burnett for A Little Princess. It was totally my breakthrough book, like the first book I ever read that really made me want to read another (and later, to write one of my own).
Posted April 9, 2011 at 23:54 | Permalink
Ah see, Alanna was the first book I ever read cover to cover :3 Tamora Pierce made me want to write. She’s one of the main reasons I wanted to go to Alpha :3
Posted April 10, 2011 at 08:46 | Permalink
Don’t worry! There’s always next year! Actually, I’d you want to meet Tamora Peirce you kind of HAVE to apply to alpha again next year. I think I read somewhere that it’s the only summer program she teaches at.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 08:50 | Permalink
Micky – that’s so great that you got waitlisted! That atleast means that you did decently well.
For all my kindred spirits, the rejectees, this is not the end. Don’t give up. Just liken this to being published, you get rejected before you get accepted. Think about it this way, now you get a whole ‘nother year to work on your writing. I’m taking some writing classes over the summer and am just going to practice all kinds of writings. I’m going to read more, too. For those of you (like me,) who procrastinated, I suppose you could start earlier.
Just don’t give up hope! Keep on writing, because you’ll never go anywhere if you give up after a small bump in the road. If you cut down the sycamore tree, then you’ll never know how high it can grow.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 09:02 | Permalink
Tamora Peirce is my favorite author. Though I have to admit my story was more based on/ inspired by Erin Hunter’s Warriors Series. I also Love Hunger Games, though I thought the third one kind of stunk. Ranger’s Apprentice, Percy Jackson and the other stuff by that guy, Guardians of Ga’ Hoole, the list goes on and on but I think Those are the biggest ones. I love fantasy *sigh* I really wanted to meet Peirce…….
Posted April 10, 2011 at 09:06 | Permalink
When the going gets tough, the tough…get better. I guess short stories aren’t really my thing, anyway. I’m going to go for the golden apple…
And (if I’m lucky) show them my potential. If not…well, I’ll be back, next year. I have a good idea. I just need to roll with it.
Do any of you wish to stay connected? We can trade feedback during the coming year.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 09:48 | Permalink
Yes! I’d LOVE to stay in touch with all of you guys :3
Posted April 10, 2011 at 09:55 | Permalink
Same here, You all got Face Book? Or we just gonna keep posting on this or e-mail?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 09:57 | Permalink
I have a Face Book as well…so I guess whatever’s easier?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:13 | Permalink
I’d like to stay connected too! Whatever is easiest for you guys.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:20 | Permalink
I’m all for using FB
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:26 | Permalink
Oh, me too please! I’ve also got a Facebook, and I’d love to keep in touch with all of you guys and see how your writing is getting on. Maybe we could all critique each others application stories for next year!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:34 | Permalink
Indeed! I sense a silver lining on the cloud of rejection! hehe.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:55 | Permalink
Same here. Wait, so what are your names on Facebook? Who can I friend?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:55 | Permalink
Ha! I got the 100th post! Yay!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 10:58 | Permalink
lol Meghan Pell. Look for a chic with really long hair wearing a black shirt
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:01 | Permalink
Friend request sent!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:02 | Permalink
Are you the first one that shows up when I search your name?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:03 | Permalink
Michelle Dart, My pic has me in a pink shirt, a riding helmet, holding my horse’s reins.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:03 | Permalink
Ill friend you guys after church
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:06 | Permalink
Meghan I sent you a request too. You can probably tell it’s me since there aren’t many Noellas.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:10 | Permalink
Okay ^_^
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:13 | Permalink
Micky I didn’t get yours yet…what’s your name?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:13 | Permalink
Michelle, I can’t find you anywhere on Facebook.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:23 | Permalink
She’s the first one that comes up when you search her name…
Posted April 10, 2011 at 11:53 | Permalink
Noella- My name is Michal Leibowitz.
Meghan- the fist thing I see when I search Michelle’s name is a girl holding a rainbow heart?!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 12:23 | Permalink
O.o weird
Posted April 10, 2011 at 12:26 | Permalink
Micky – she has a pink shirt and a horse next to her.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 12:32 | Permalink
Sorry Meghan, I think I originally friended the wrong person! And Noelle, I think that Michelle couldn’t show up on my search until I had at least 1 mutual friend- I found her now though!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 14:45 | Permalink
Hi everybody. Congratz to all, not just the people who were accepted, but EVERYBODY who applied. I mean, we all wrote application stories with a beginning, a middle, and an end (which is no small feat); we sent them in on time; and went through an agonizingly long waiting period. So, whatever happens, just know, WE DID IT!
P.S. Has anyone else been waitlisted?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 14:48 | Permalink
Hey Jenna! That other wait listed person would be me! Congrats on the accomplishment! What position are you on the list??
Posted April 10, 2011 at 14:56 | Permalink
Hi Micky! I’m #6. How about you?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 14:56 | Permalink
Oh,and congratz to you too!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 15:17 | Permalink
lol thnx, Jenna. I’m first on the wait list now but I still have no guarantee of getting in…Are you going to stay on the wait list? I really hope I’ll get to meet you when we’re both at Alpha! (never underestimate the power of positive thinking)!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 16:15 | Permalink
Haha! Totally, positive thinking works wonders! I can’t wait to meet you too! So, what was your app story about?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 17:07 | Permalink
well, If you can find Noella you can get me through her, we’re friends already
Posted April 10, 2011 at 17:10 | Permalink
I created a group for us ^_^
Posted April 10, 2011 at 17:31 | Permalink
Hey I just posted my short story on my blog
http://taragonra-mymindisrandom.blogspot.com/
Ignore anything else, it was part of a class project last semester lol
Posted April 10, 2011 at 17:51 | Permalink
Hey Jenna. My application story was set in a kinda alternate/futuristic world, but I wouldn’t really call it sci-fi… Actually, I don’t really know what I would call it! Anyways, it’s about this girl with the power of persuasion, and how she has to choose between the rebel cause they use rather extreme methods), or her father (the prime minster). What was your story about? Do you specialize in short stories, or are you more of a novelist?
Posted April 10, 2011 at 18:07 | Permalink
Personally, I’m more of a novelist. I’m actually working on a novel series. I have basically the entire story line for the first book worked out, bits and pieces of the second one, and the beginning of the third one. My problem is getting it out oh my head and onto the computer, I only have about 5 or 6 chapters actually written out.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 18:10 | Permalink
I’m thinking for my short story next year i’ll base it on my novel. Give the back story on the main character’s father, even though I still can’t figure out a way to bring him in to the main novels. He disappeared before the main character was born.
Posted April 10, 2011 at 18:37 | Permalink
Wow Michelle. That sounds really cool, you’ll just have to make sure that you can make a full story out of it. Luckily, even if I don’t get into alpha this year, I’ll have a bit more of a warning for next year! I had to write my whole application story a week and a half before the deadline!
Posted April 10, 2011 at 19:23 | Permalink
ouch